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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast with Thomas Helfrich. Get ready for a thrilling adventure as we uncover entrepreneurial journeys and life changing business insights every week. And now your host, Thomas.
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Welcome to another episode ofNever Been Promoted, where we are unleashing your entrepreneur by learning from other entrepreneurs through their life lessons, their entrepreneurial lessons. And if this is your first time listening, thank you. I hope it's the first of many. We're going to give some lessons from other entrepreneurs as they talk about their journey and their story. And if you've been here a few times, thanks again for coming back. Today I'm joined by Hayden Kanikkeberg, kick a berg. I blew it up. I killed it. I know I got it right. Hayden, I saw, I read the bird backwards and they're like the other dyslexia kicked in. Hayden, could you pronounce your name correctly, please, and tell us where you're from?
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Hayden. And then last name is Kanikkeberg. And then I'm from Idaho. North Idaho.
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North Idaho. That is a state in the US. For those who don't know, it's toward the Middle east. Wasn't that an anchorman? The movie he was doing, the weather, he's like. And the Middle east we have no.
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I don't know. I don't know. That is a good movie, though.
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Hayden, you're your company. J. Galt, right? Do you want to talk? Once you set up, obviously set the table, tell the story. Give us a little backdrop about you in the space you work in for entrepreneurship.
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To keep it kind of brief, I started out in kind of healthcare, then move my way into tech, then move my way into kind of the startup space for a little while and was helping tech renewable energy companies scale their business. And then eventually I got in touch with Jay Galt as I was starting my entrepreneur journey. So I actually started a business that was originally career development and recruiting focused, was going to do a couple of things that now I realize they're a little bit sketchy on the funding side now that I've had a chance to get connected with Jgault and now I work for them as a managing partner, and I help business owners gain access to capital that they need for their business to scale and actually mitigate the risk for the business owner at the same time, too.
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Very nice. And I'd love to get into some of the things and you're helping people establish, get access to. I don't say credit because it's access to capital so they can grow their businesses. And we're going to get into that a little bit. The do's and the don'ts. And the reality of doing that, personal credit, no credit, whatever else, revenue, and also what it actually does to your business. So as you're listening, are you actually building business credit or not? I think that's part of the conversation we'll have as well, because I learned a lot in our first meeting offline. I was like, oh, my gosh, I never knew that. I've been told wrong. So, entrepreneurs listening, you may not realize that you're going to need business credit for your business, but there's a way to go about it. The show will specifically focus on the do's don'ts of that. So let's, let's dive in a little bit. You work with entrepreneurs, they come to you. What's the main problem entrepreneurs are coming to you to solve?
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Yeah, a lot of the time it's, it's lack of cash flow. So you'll, if you ever have a chance to look it up, that's kind of the main cause for businesses going under, is not having enough of that free cash flow. And a lot of entrepreneurs don't know how to get that money. So there's a couple of ways that you can do it. You can take on investors, you can take out loans, or you can bootstrap it and use your own cash. Right. My recommendation is to use credit capital that you can get through a bank that's lower interest, be able to leverage that and scale instead of taking on an investor. Especially because when you're early stage, an investor is going to want to take a pretty large chunk of your company. And most entrepreneurs started their business to keep that creative freedom. But when you take on an investor early pre revenue or early revenue, you're going to lose a lot of that creative freedom. So this is why we teach individuals this strategy, so they can scale their company the way they want to, but keep control of it at the same time.
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What's their biggest risk? Let's leave things obvious, like cash flow. Let's make the presumption their product or service is good enough to leverage the investment in a way. But what is their biggest risk of taking? Let's say debt financing versus equity financing?
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Yeah, a great question or way to answer that one is a lot of the time, business owners are going to have to personally guarantee that debt if they're going to go through a financial institution. And that's really what puts them at risk. It's a very common term. It's called commingling funds. So if you have an LLC, an S Corp, a C Corp or a nonprofit, the moment that you start to commingle those funds, that protection from the LLC, the S Corp, the C Corp, is gone. So it allows creditors, lawyers to pierce that veil and come after your personal assets like your home, your savings account, investment accounts, anything that they could liquidate to settle those business debts that you took out from those financial institutions. But when you're building business credit on the ein of your company, only you keep that separation. So by law, you are seen as your EIn and your Social Security number. And if you can keep those separated, it can only come after you for what your ein owns. And it can't touch anything that you own personally. And that's what we're teaching entrepreneurs how to do, and how to do it effectively too.
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Well, that's a great point. So, building on the EIN, which is the employer identification number for those who may don't have one yet, or you know, and you take by way all eight minutes to set up through the IR's and key to getting your LLC or anything else set up, maybe not your c Corp, a little more steps than that. But like the, the LLC is a 30 minutes activity. Honestly, most of the time to get set up and just pure advice, entrepreneurs get a corporation set up from day one. You need it for business banking. It's one of the first, obviously first steps for establishing credit. So tell me, what's the easiest path for somebody, let's say with perfect, it just doesn't matter. Like credit aside, no matter what your personal credit history is, how does a new company establish credit day one?
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Yeah, I think the first thing that you have to take a look at is your foundations. So they're going to take a look at whether or not you are a potential scam risk. And I use that word very heavily because you can get flagged pretty easily. Those things could be like not having a 411 listed phone number or not having a business email, an actual business address. And there's workarounds for certain things. Like if you don't want to have an actual landline and a 411 listed phone number, there are ways to get a 411 phone number that actually routes to your cell phone. So there's definitely workarounds for entrepreneurs and business owners. But if you don't have those key pieces in place, place lenders and vendors aren't going to want to give you capital because they're not entirely sure that they're going to recoup on that investment because of that potential scam risk. So we take it all the way back to the foundations and build from there. And then the next step, the easiest step, and this is how you get into building business credit without any personal guarantees in the very beginning, is opening up merchant accounts. Those can be net 30 accounts at places like Amazon, Home Depot, Costco, Staples, like just to name a few of them. You open up those net 30 accounts and start to pay early on those accounts so you can start to establish a good payment history and build from there.
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Robert, do you recommend just like even saying, let's get like the smallest line and just draw something from it for the purposes of like, hey, you're paying for a little interest there, but your, the long term benefit of establishing some kind of payment credit history is, is well worth the insignificance, let's say, of the payment. It for the purpose is enough, I guess, let me say it differently, is enough just to have a line of credit and not use it, or do you have to actually show a payment against it?
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You do have to show a payment against it. You really want to show them a history of making your payments on time and just going through those steps, but truly it spreads out the cost, which actually frees up cash flow and lets you use that cash for other things in your business. As long as you're focused on keeping a good debt to cash ratio, you're going to be able to run your business the way that you need to while also starting to build an actual cash reserve. And that will help you during challenging times, that can help you make acquisitions of things that you need for your business in that moment. Because a lot of small business owners or entrepreneurs miss opportunities because they don't have the money set aside to go and take on that new opportunity as it comes fixes that problem.
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I will tell you, sometimes it's been good. In the early days, I didn't have capital because I would have made a bad decision. Something just to be clear, sometimes you live and learn.
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No. And I think sometimes you have to make those. Oh, go ahead.
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No, like you just got to pump the brakes. Sometimes you're right. So like, so blessings in disguise. But I will tell you, so like, you know, I know we established a line of credit. I'm sure I'm personally guaranteeing it to some degree. But even if I'm not, it did help. Like there was, you know, this time last year. Here we're in December of 2023. A year prior, as we had shifted services, we really had some of the wrong types of customers. We had a few of the right types that stayed, but I was pretty sure the wrong types were all going to leave because of the fickle nature of their business and how they were the line of credit. We had plenty of cash flow, but we needed it because I knew we were about to hit a desert for about three months and it was tight. But that line of credit paid let us to finance things through a credit card basically, and pay the credit card the line of credit, and run that revolving circle for three months till we got cash. And so the need of it, that's a good use for it to keep a business afloat. The flip side of that is how important though, if you have bad credit, it's not considered at all in the application. Like from especially, let's say. Let me say it differently. Let's say you have check fraud issues from the past. Does that come up or is it completely different? So not the way we cleared by the audience. I've never had that. I'm just saying I've seen people in the credit world have had too many bounce checks, too many issues on the banking side, and they always have credit issues, I'll say it that way. So, and I know founders who are in that because they've hustled, they try to do things. So let me ask you that question. It's that question setting that wasn't about me.
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It's a good question too, because a lot of business owners are in that position, right? Because they're using their personal credit to gain access to capital for their business. So they are getting overextended. But what's nice about our program specifically is it doesn't matter what your personal credit score is. You could actually be in a bank bankruptcy status and still be able to build business credit on the ein of your company as long as you're willing to invest in the health and safety of your business. That's kind of the big kicker is if you're willing to go through our process, we can get you there regardless of what your personal credit score looks like. Now the nice part about this process is if somebody has damage on their personal credit score and they start to build their business credit score, you can actually start to move some of those expenses that you did business wise personal credit over to true business accounts, decreasing the utilization of your personal credit, and actually increase your personal credit score. So you can start to see an increase in both scores and really take advantage of the credit system on both sides, both the personal and the business credit side, like it was intended to be. But most small businesses just use their personal credit all the time for their business, and it affects both their business and their personal life at the same time.
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And I always ask this question of kind of like long your own journey, or maybe you can take the perspective of entrepreneurs you work with. Maybe it's the one thing you hear the most that they say, man, I wish I would have known x or I wish I wouldn't have done y. What comes up the most in your world?
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I think a lot of the time it comes with, you know, I wish I would have taken on more opportunity as it came. So a lot of entrepreneurs miss opportunities to grow and miss things to do because they overanalyzed or they took too much time or they just, they didn't have the cash to be able to do it. So I see that as pretty consistent. Individuals felt like they missed that one opportunity or that one shining moment that came up. And that's kind of the big one, the one that I see a lot.
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Yeah, well, of, I mean, time loss is never found again. Right. And neither does the opportunity. Sometimes opportunities come back around. Is there, is there a certain Persona that should never get a line of credit or should never try to do this, even for their business?
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Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the case in, in any scenario. I think there's individuals that if they don't have any intention of paying it back. Right. If it's built on the ein of your company, technically you can liquidate what your company owns and you'll walk away from everything untouched. But that's really not the system that you want to have. Like lenders aren't going to want to continue to play that game with you if you're not going to, you know, pay them back. So an individual who really has no intentions on doing the right thing probably shouldn't pursue this because you also lose your reputation as a business owner. So even though this does eliminate the risk, you still have a reputation. So if you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing, it's going to affect you moving forward. So that's probably the only Persona that I could think of.
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Yeah. Or if you're impulsive. I meant if you have a bad gambling habit.
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Yeah.
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And you intend to pay it back with the big winnings, maybe that's another one.
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Yeah. I do think that impulsive, though, to a certain degree, does well in business. Somebody who can just kind of pull the trigger as things come up and they don't really hesitate on it, it's still calculated so don't get me wrong.
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It's not like calculated, quick decision makers versus impulsive gambler types.
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Yes.
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Going for the big ones, seven and eight, maybe that, you know, if you look like, you know, I always like to allow anybody on the show to kind of like, do a plug for the show, but I don't mean it in a way that's like, you know, don't turn, if you're listening, don't turn out. Describe who should come contact you, how they should go do that, and what the first step is they need to take when they're with you or before they get there. Just give somebody just kind of a path of where to go next.
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Yeah, I think any business owner that really wants to take their business to the next level or even set themselves up for a safety net just in case of a COVID scenario again, or just another economic downturn, it could be anyone from pre revenue up to $850 million. That's kind of the range that we've been able to help so far. But truly, anyone that's interested in building generational wealth for themselves and their families should come and talk with us. It's a free consultation, so you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
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You know, speaking of scenario of, like, COVID or some kind of extreme circumstances, but let's just say an economic downturn, a tour downturn. Coffee is important, people. It's Monday. I didn't do it. I don't drink coffee, but you get what I mean. Okay, economic downturn. And the question is to the stability of the line of credit itself, or the, I'm saying line of credit, but the access to capital, how quickly? Let's say you're doing anything perfect. Great. How reliable is it, though? Can they reduce the lines immediately for no reason?
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Just like in any scenario, it depends on what's out on the market. But when you're building business credit, you're going to have access to the best options available. So obviously it still is impacted by recessions and things of that nature, but you're still going to be better set than someone who doesn't have business credit. And there are ways to secure capital quickly. We have that as an option, too, but our program itself, to get to a spot where you build a good line of business credit takes about ten to twelve months. It's not a hard process, but it's not an easy one either. And individuals have to dedicate themselves to it and they have to be intentional to build it. But I truly believe that if you are headed into an economic downturn, you're going to want to have the best possible options and the best possible interest rates to get you through that tough time.
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Agreed. Look ahead. Look forward. Talk to me about this market. Does it have a lot of regulation? Is it something that's going to. Let me phrase it differently. Let's back up a second. You should talk about, because I'm getting the regulation, things about establishing something first, there's a lot of shady individuals in this market. Talk to me about the shadiness, what to avoid. You know, just let educate anyone, listen to this about what to do, what to run from and why, and take a few minutes to just because I normally say, hey, keep your answers to three minutes or so. Like, guys, listen to him. He's got a lot on this. So please don't feel like you're rushed to answer this one because I want you to really explain what to run from and why and just please go ahead.
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Yeah, I think if people don't have data to be able to back it up, they don't have testimonials to kind of take a look at and see the truth is we talk about this all the time. There's a lot of gurus on YouTube, university, Instagram, TikTok, like you name it. They talk about building business credit, but a lot of them are pulling out lines of credit that don't necessarily report into the big three bureaus. So if you're looking at somebody or you're working with somebody who really only focuses on building on Dun and Bradstreet, and that's the only thing that they're focused on. And they're still using your personal credit score to gain access to certain things. My guess is you're not actually building business credit. You're using personal credit to gain access to a credit card that could report to Dun and Bradstreet, but it still can negatively impact you on both sides. So that's kind of the big thing is focus on somebody who's actually going to help you build your foundational piece from start to finish and is going to walk you through every step of the process. That means getting that foundation in place, opening up those merchant accounts, doing the net 30 accounts, and then from there, you're moving into different tiers. And we help individuals go through tier 1234 and we help individuals build across business, Experian business, Equifax and Dun and Bradstreet. So that's kind of the big key is, you know, do they have a proven track record of what they say they do. And are they actually focusing on building credit the correct way? And do they have a consistent plan? Right. We tailor our plan specifically to each business owner because their expenses are different. So if you don't have somebody or maybe they're giving you a whitewash program of like, this is what so and so does doesn't mean it's necessarily going to work for you. Right. You have to know what your business's expenses are, what accounts to actually open and what accounts report to which bureau. Because if you're not building across all three, there could be a chance that you go in and try to secure capital and you get denied because they pulled a different number than Dun and Bradstreet. So that's kind of my big focus is build across all three and do it the correct way from the very.
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Beginning is when you're trying to establish credit, if someone asks your Social Security number, don't that's the wrong spot to be in?
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Not necessarily. So if you wanted to use your personal credit score, you could expedite the process by opening up higher lines of credit initially and then eventually offload that risk onto business accounts later on. It just depends on what the appetite of risk is of the business owner. But the truth is if you came to somebody and said, hey, I want to do this process, no personal guarantees, and then they start asking you for your Social Security number, well, you're personally guaranteeing for that now because you're using your Social Security number, which is now commingling those funds together again. So that's the big thing is if you're specifically asking no more personal guarantees and they're still asking you for your credit score, they're not doing what they promised they would do.
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So let's say. So for my bank, they asked, they said it is pure business credit. It's tied to the business piece. They did ask for my social, I'm sure in some fine print. I'm still personally guaranteeing it somehow, in some way. I don't know. The question is, but are they looking potentially for bankruptcies, fraud on my end just to indicate from a risk factor versus, even though I'm not personally guaranteeing it, but maybe personally how I'd run the business as the controller?
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Yeah, I think they take a look at your personal history just to see if they're going to be able to recoup their investment. But anytime they use your Social Security number, your personal history, payment history, it is tied to you. That's how they end up having you be a personal guarantor. For certain things. Because as a lending institution, like you either want them to be able to pay back the money that you sent them through their business transactions, or if they can't, they have to have something to be able to recoup their investment or they're putting themselves at risk. Now when you're running purely on Ein based business credit, they will not ask you for your Social Security number if you're using the right financial institutes. So we partner with mid tier banks that have given us the option of no personal guarantees. So they won't pull personal information, they just go based off of your risk score and your recommended credit line, and that's all you need.
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So let's say you're a newer business. What are the guidelines? Two years with revenue, no revenue. What helps minimize what helps versus has no impact, just a history.
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So that's why I tell individuals like you could be pre revenue, right? You have nothing coming in. I don't typically take on a new entrepreneur or client. If they are pre revenue and they're only working in their business, I think that puts them at risk from just a financial standpoint. So my personal preferences, I take on somebody who doesn't have any revenue. No, but if they have a w two job and they're starting their business and they have some cash that they can use to help them with their business, even pre revenue, you start those accounts, you open up net 30 accounts, you create a history and you show that you're making your payments on time and you're monitoring your credit reports actively. So if there's any fraudulent activity, you're getting it removed quickly and just keeping yourself in a good position where you look like a non risk factor to these lenders, then you'll be able to continue to jump through the steps without having to have personal guarantees. So it really doesn't matter how long you've been in business, as long as you do the steps correctly.
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I like that. Let me ask you, so if you have revenue though, and you, does that give you more favorable terms? Potentially, if you have revenue and you, let's say you have no business credit, you just built a business and you've personally guaranteed it, whatever else, and you're like, listen, I want to get a line of credit that's not personally and so I can just stop using the other one or exit it or get it unco, unwind the commingling. Is That a strategy? Do you guys do that kind of help? Like as the businesses? Maybe you're starting with a very small $500 whatever it is. Doesn't matter. And you're like, hey, listen, I have $100,000 revenue. Let's go get you a $20,000 line of credit on the business. For real. Do you guys HelP with that as well? Consulting coach.
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Yep. Yeah, we do. We offload any risk that has been done previously. So we'll find ways to transfer over account balances to pure business accounts and get it removed from you personally. But you have to build a high enough credit line to justify that. So you do have to kind of work your way through the steps. TheRe's no real IMMEDIate hurdle that you can just jump over to get it removed. So you do have to kind of go through the process to get to that point. Did that answer your question? Oh, you're on mute there.
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I think so. The point is, based on who's listening to this, where they are in their journey, I didn't want to confine the people who might reach out to you or want to seek interest just to those who are just starting. I think you could be ten years into it, and it'd be worth you guys looking at their portfolio to say, hey, everything you have is tied to your personal. I don't know if you knew that or maybe you're okay with that, but the point being is, I think a lot of people don't know. I think they're told one thing, and for the most part, maybe it isn't guaranteed they're personal until it really matters, until it's like, hey, until there's a catastrophic issue. And then, oh, by the way, we're going to come after you now. And so that consultative piece is really important in understanding who should come to, because I know personally, I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't know how to look at it. So. And that's, honestly, I trust my bank that they're not looking at my personal, but I'm also not using it. There's that. Let me just pivot to more, like, can we do a hot seat kind of moment? And we kind of go back and forth. And I do this because I always, like, I get anyone's perspective of. And you can keep your answers around kind of this world, but, like, from your perspective, what are some books initially that business owners. What do you like from your business book? I love to share, like, your favorite business book, but what do you think helps people most in this space? Did you have a favorite?
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I wouldn't even say it's a business book, but it is a book that I think can be tied to business a lot. And it's Kobe Bryant's book Mama mentality. And I really do think if you're going to go into something, you have to go into it with the mindset of being the best. And it doesn't matter what industry it is, it doesn't matter if you're mowing lawns, it doesn't matter if you're a financial guy, you're a lawyer, whatever it is, whatever you decide to do, you should go in with the idea that you don't know everything, that you need to actually take the time to be a student of whatever you're trying to do and be able to work your way every day. Trust the process and enjoy the process. So at the end, you are the best version that you can be in the industry that you selected.
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Yeah, I like that. And I think a lot of people underestimate how when you see a sports industry like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, how their personal sports contributions and the work they've done there, how actually good business people, a lot of them are because of the repetitiveness of getting the right people around them, of following the process, being driven, getting up, getting it done. They translate that over. And I know that's maybe a bigger picture, bigger thing than the scope we're talking about with just establishing capital versus credit and those other things. But I think when you read books, that's a get outside your zone a little bit. Don't read finance books only. Don't read about capital raising. Look out and look from other people, because sometimes those are the components of your business you're missing, are found in stories or analogy of others. And I think a big thing I'm going to come back to, there's a lot of talk about credit. And usually I think, you know, makes people kind of pull back like, hey, credit, either, like, I got good credit, I don't want you near me, or I have bad credit. I'm embarrassed. The benefit of what you're doing is getting access to capital. So leaving the word credit out, focusing on that you're getting access to capital regardless of your situation, and knowing how to do it properly from day one and on, is ultimately the benefit of what you guys do. Is that correct?
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Yep. Yeah. It's our way of making sure that you have enough money to run your business the way that you want to or even more money to be able to leverage and grow quicker. It's the same strategies that Google, Amazon, a lot of other mega corporations use because it helps you create a cash reserve. So if individuals really are trying to build generational wealth, which I think that should be what everyone strives for, is to be able to make enough to take care of themselves and their family for generations to come, you want to be able to have a cash reserve so you can start investing that cash reserve into things that are going to make you money. So if you can get to a spot where you can leverage and have your money make you money now, you're going to be ahead of everything.
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Agreed. What's kind of your favorite quote?
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Oh, man, I would have to think about that one a little bit, actually. I'll go with what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I think that can be applied both to that mama mentality book and just business in general. Like, if you look out on the Internet right now, there's all these gurus talking about, you know, quick fixes, quick ways to make money, quick ways to build business. And truly, I just, I don't think that's there mig222ht be some, you know, and I'm not going to sit here and say that there isn't a quick way to make a lot of money. I'm sure there are. But for the most part, you're going to have to go through a period where you're kind of getting beat up a little bit and you're learning and then you apply what you learned and you get beat up again and then you just, it's, it's a cycle of just getting better every day but taking on those challenges. And some days you get punched in the face, but other days you get these victories and as you go through those, those struggles and those trials, when you get to those successes, they feel a lot sweeter when you do.
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Yeah, I think. I think it's, you know, not literally, there's some things that can not kill you, not make you stronger, but, but the metaphor of it, I love. Maybe leave us with a final thought. Like what? What? Give me one thing an entrepreneur should never do, I guess, in general, in related to what your business is like beyond what we've talked about, like, one thing that maybe we haven't covered that you'd be like, just don't ever do this.
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I would say don't wait for the perfect circumstances. It'll never happen. Right. So if you're a planner and it's, I'm not saying don't plan, but I am saying, like, you don't have to have everything perfect to move forward with a business. Right. You can learn as you go, you can make mistakes as you go. And as long as you have a good customer service base where you can admit your faults and correct them, you're going to be much better off than waiting until everything is exactly how you needed it to be. Because that day will never come. Which means that your opportunity to become an entrepreneur will never come.
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Absolutely. Get off. Get off your ass and go, Deuce. That's a great, I'm summarizing, not his words, it's what he thought.
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That's accurate, though. That is solid.
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I appreciate you coming on today and explaining this because I know there's so much more to learn with this. And I encourage people to reach out to you directly, Hayden. How should they do that?
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Yeah, they can reach me. So if they go to my LinkedIn, they can also go to my Instagram page as well. Or they can just go directly to my website, too. And I'll include all of those links into any of the posts of these podcasts. That way they can check it out, get more information. And like I said, they're free consultations with us, too. So it's really just a chance to sit in with individuals like myself that are professionals and what we do. And we'll just show you a path to help you on both sides. The business credit and how it can help your personal credit, too.
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Awesome. Thank you so much, Hayden, for coming in today. Anybody who's still listening, always appreciate it when you make it to this point. You know, never been promoted is about unleashing that entrepreneur. And there's lots of aspects, lots of things you're going to of have to go through to become a successful entrepreneur. And a lot just to get started. But guests like Hayden and what they're doing at J. Galt are very important things to know. At least be someone educated about. If you've learned any one thing from it today, then you're 1% better than you were maybe yesterday for it. So thanks again for listening to Never Been Promoted. And until next time, go unleash your entrepreneur.
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Thanks for listening to never been promoted with Thomas Helfrich. Make sure to check the show notes for our guest contact information and any relevant links. Connect with Thomas personally at neverbenpromoted.com.