Never Been Promoted Podcast

"The Art of the Deal": Keri-Lynne Shaw on Unlocking Financial Success

March 23, 2024 Thomas Helfrich Season 1 Episode 30
Never Been Promoted Podcast
"The Art of the Deal": Keri-Lynne Shaw on Unlocking Financial Success
Never Been Promoted
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Never Been Promoted Podcast with Thomas Helfrich

Dive into the world of negotiation and career advancement with Keri-Lynne Shaw, founder and CEO of The Salary Bump, on the Never Been Promoted podcast. Hosted by Thomas Helfrich, this episode delves into Keri-Lynne's transition from a successful corporate career to empowering individuals to maximize their earnings through strategic negotiation.

About Keri-Lynne Shaw:

With an extensive background as a Chief People Officer, Keri-Lynne Shaw has witnessed firsthand the challenges and missed opportunities in salary negotiations. Her journey led her to establish The Salary Bump, where she empowers individuals to confidently navigate negotiations, securing the financial rewards they truly deserve. Her approach combines strategic insights with a deep understanding of market dynamics, offering a comprehensive guide for those looking to maximize their earning potential.

In this episode, Thomas and Keri-Lynne explore:

The Genesis of The Salary Bump: From corporate leadership to entrepreneurial venture.
Negotiation Nuances: Overcoming fear, understanding market value, and leveraging comprehensive compensation packages.
Strategic Insights: Tips for successful negotiations, including when and how to discuss salary and benefits effectively.

Key Takeaways:

  • Negotiation is a Skill: Learn to approach salary discussions with confidence, backed by thorough market research and strategic preparation.
  • Beyond Salary: Discover the multitude of negotiable elements in a compensation package, from bonuses and equity to healthcare benefits and beyond.
  • Empowerment Through Knowledge: Ker-Lynne emphasizes the importance of knowing your worth and advocating for it in every professional interaction.

"Negotiation is not just about the salary; it's about recognizing and securing your full value in the professional world." — Keri-Lynne Shaw


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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast with Thomas Helfrich. Get ready for a thrilling adventure as we uncover entrepreneurial journeys and life changing business insights every week. And now, your host, Thomas.

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Welcome back to Never Been Promoted podcast where we're all about unleashing your entrepreneur. If it's your first time listening, you are most welcome here. And thank you for showing up. And if you've been here before, I'm going to award you extra dad points for showing up today. And dad points, as you know, could be used anywhere in the world if you can figure out how to spend them. Little humor before we meet our guest. What we're trying to do has never been promoted is a movement. It's a movement to create a whole bunch of entrepreneurs but that are doing entrepreneurship better, they're doing life better, and they're learning from other entrepreneurs. They're being mentored from their mistakes, their learnings, their successes and failures. And so today's guest coming in here is Keri Lynne Shaw. She is the founder and CEO of the salary bump. And it's going to be a very unique conversation because she is a founder, but she's helping people get more money out of their employment and their negotiations for new deals. But Keri Lynne, thank you for joining today.

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Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

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I wish I would have met you as I was doing job hunting through my thirty s and forty s. I think I did a good job negotiating some pretty good ones. But if I could have gotten the extra 30% to 50% you do with your customers, I may not become an entrepreneur, to be fair. Do you want to talk about you a little bit? Set us up here a little bit about your background and how you got to become maybe just a founder. Give me the high brushstrokes here.

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Yeah, sure. So you talk about the mistakes that you made. Everyone makes them, which is why I started the company. I was one of them, actually. So in the interviews when I used to interview, I would actually say the words, it's not about the money. It's about my growth. It's about my learning. And I actually honestly believed that, that it wasn't about the money, and the money do good work and the money would come. And most certainly to an extent, it did. My last corporate role was a chief people officer. I'm still a fractional chief people officer. So that wasn't really my number one value or priority. But what I realized and what I'm teaching people is it doesn't have to be your number one driver for you to have both the growth, whatever your values are, and the money. We all have financial goals. We all have mortgages to pay, retirements to save for kids to put through college. And sitting in the role of chief people officer, I recognized of the thousands of people I've made offers to, the sad percentage of people that negotiate, it's incredibly low. I mean, statistically, we can look at the stats that show it's approximately 50%, less than 50%. In my experience, it was more like 15%. And so I set out to change that, and I've been actually doing it for the last decade. And so my entire journey was people telling me, kale, you should do this for a living. Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you launching a company? Why isn't this your full time gig? And it wasn't at the time what was right for me. Fast forward last April, and I decided to give a go and create something that will be really impactful for people.

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Listen, and I think the lesson that I love to hear there is you had a very successful career, and you saw something that you had a higher passion for the circumstances. And we'll get into how you founded The Salary Bump and you were doing it for people, not for feet, but because you enjoyed doing it. And we'll talk about some of that transition, too, of how do you go from something you love, that people valued, because it was just something you were giving advice for, that you found satisfaction from helping to monetizing it. So that step I definitely want to talk about a bit. But as you've grown, what was the trigger? Because lots of people are in the spot, what was the trigger that took you from a career corporate world? You're like you couldn't have imagined in your twenty s and that you had it. And then to become the founder with a whole different salary structure, I'll say it that way.

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Yeah, being a founder definitely has a different startup ramp, let's just say. So I did over the last decade. I didn't monetize it. I didn't charge people, because I loved what I was doing, and I felt like my purpose is unlocking people's potential. So switching, that has been a really interesting one. So it sort of happened to me, I suppose. I was in a great role, company did a pivot, and I was no longer part of that organization. And it was the first time ever that that had happened to me. And I really had to take a beat and figure out what do I want to do next. I was applying for chief people officer roles every company needs us. Industry agnostic, doesn't matter. And I kept coming in second for all of my interviews. And I thought, is someone trying to tell me something? So I decided it just was something that I woke up one day and I had a dream about it. I had a friend over for dinner. I was telling him about it. He couldn't stop talking about it. He said, kayl, you have to do this. And he said, why don't you write the A to Z's of The Salary Bump? So I did have the name and I thought, oh, that's an interesting idea. So I woke up at three in the morning the next day and I could not sleep. I could not stop thinking about the A to Z. So that was how it started. And I realized what I wanted to do was do something that would be scalable for people so that everybody could have access to it. There's two different ways people can work with me. One on one or an online program. And the online program is the one I'm just so proud of and so excited for people to get their hands on and change their lives, change their career trajectory.

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I find it funny you didn't negotiate fees. Funny is the right word. Irony. Irony. Ironic. I'm not good with english language. It's. English as a first language is tough for me. And I find it ironic you didn't negotiate fees for the consulting. I get it because everyone starts that way. Talk about your demographic, maybe of what you're seeing. So this is the lesson in the entrepreneurship here is the people that take things for free and get benefit from aren't always the ones who will pay for it. You want to talk about that a little bit? What you're realizing in your journey right now of who it is is your ideal customer profile.

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Yeah, it's actually not necessarily a demographic as much as it is somebody who wants to take control and get in the driver's seat of changing their life. So it's more about having that feeling and that desire to take some action. So I work from a one on one perspective, everything from CEOs to one. I just helped negotiate a package as an automotive technician who just graduated with his top level achievements. And technicians are turning over at 50%. Dealers can't keep them. I spent 20 years in automotive, so I'm a total car nerd. And, yeah, helped him negotiate a $50,000 raise on $100,000. So it varies. It's really dependent on who's really serious about it and who wants to do the work. Working with me, one on one is a faster, it's a couple of sessions, we lock it down. If you're going with the online route, it's self guided, so you have to want to take it seriously. But Gen Z people coming out of college are really finding it valuable because they have no idea where to start. And frankly, if I look at one of my missions, which is to close the gender pay gap, if I can help people at a much earlier stage in their career, we'll have a much better chance at not making the same mistakes you and I did early on.

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Yeah, no doubt. And I think the bigger entrepreneurial lesson I'm hearing do you have here is you have a higher passion purpose for something you love to do. And that higher driver, I think helps also shape your personal brand. And so when you're out there and your entrepreneurs listening, you're trying to build what you're doing, find a higher purpose that has some more tactical deliveries and services. You do that help facilitate that bigger strategy. That does a couple of things. One, it does help a bigger purpose for you. It's for more equality and pay. And to get that, you need to negotiate and have the knowledge that it's there. But second, it creates a better brand for you. And because you're not just about you and the transaction or just your customer transaction, it's serving a bigger good. And so tying that to brand is kind of the takeaway there. I want you to go back to a moment, you get the news and listen. And I'm taking this from a perspective of I've been asked to leave more times than I've been promoted. The promoted part is zero, but a lot. It's the next book, right? You go back to, you got the news, you come home, you're searching for the right bottle of wine, or maybe you've upgraded a vodka and whiskey at that point. Take me day one. What would you go from that day? What did you learn and what would you take back? Or what would you redo? Since the I found out now what?

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Yeah. So I had only ever been promoted in my career. And so to suddenly then be like, oh, okay, this is not a fit. It was a really interesting feeling. That was actually the most freeing feeling of my life.

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I don't mean to rush you on that one, but I'm going to jump in because the freeing moment tied with I'm not sure what the hell I'm going to go do for money and all the things, but I know exactly the feeling where you leave a several hundred thousand dollars, your job or it leaves you, but you feel free knowing that you're going to chase. And that freedom, that feeling, is something that people don't realize they have until. And it's frightening as hell. But know when you feel that, to hang on to it, because it tells you everything, you're in the right direction.

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Yeah. I'm also a glass overflowing kind of person, and I'm very confident in that. I know what I bring, and this was a situation where it wasn't a fit. I wasn't fitting for the CEO, he wasn't fitting for me, and it was very obvious. So one other thing I will say is that what I also recommend to all of my clients is you negotiate severance in your offer. And when or if that were to happen to you, you're not in a situation of utter panic. And also advise people to always just make good financial decisions so that if ever you are in a situation that you're not in a panic. Right. So the financial was not something that was weighing on me. It was really an opportunity for me to. I was on my way for a phenomenal european trip, and I was excited about my trip, so maybe that helped a little bit, but it was very freeing. And entrepreneurship, don't get me wrong, has been incredibly scary. I don't know what I don't know. I love learning and growing, but talk about going back, looking at things. TikTok. What was TikTok? There's a very big learning curve that I've really embraced, but also it has put me on the ground a couple of times.

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Actually dive into that a know, I hate the word double click on it, maybe triple click on this one, because there are so many distractions as you're learning, and it's all interesting and fun. How are you staying focused between business and the vanity pieces? Meaning like, oh, a better website or being on this social media versus this is actually what's going to make me money.

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Yeah, I haven't 100% figured that out yet. And partly, I think the word I chose for 2023, I choose a word every year, was flow. And I was really in flow last year and flowing to the next trip, the next opportunity, probably maybe a few shiny objects. I really was in flow with what I was creating. And so what I focused on first was my online program. And if I didn't have an online program besides my one on one, of course I didn't have something to sell. So that was hugely important that I was focusing on where I was going to get a return on investment. So I was doubled down on all of that. And then once I hadn't, and I didn't even look at social media. Once I had that, there was a lot that had to happen in terms of filming and editing and that whole process, which I hired someone to do because that's not my forte and my web design, and I'm smart enough to know what I love and what I'm good at and how I make an impact, and I'm smart enough to know when I need to bring in the big dogs to help me with it. So, yeah, I was doing a lot of research and taking a lot of master classes, and there was this one class that just said, you've got to start with a breadcrumb strategy. And I thought, oh, wait. So when I turn the lights on on my website, people don't just automatically show up. All right. So I started to figure out what that looked like. And the space where I have found the most power, interest, connection and support has been LinkedIn. So I have doubled down on LinkedIn, and I've just enjoyed just the process of being my authentic self. So part of this building my brand and connecting to the brand and how you talked about it being sort of intentional, it wasn't. It was very much just me speaking, and it seems to be resonating very much with people. And, yeah, it's just been a really beautiful part of the journey. And I'm really now at the stage of figuring out how do I connect all the dots, pull it all together, and make sure that it's getting out there and touching people.

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You talk about something that I think is important. You're talking authentically, and you're being yourself, not realizing. That's the intentional strategy that works best, let's say, specifically on LinkedIn. And I think I see a lot of people sometimes with talents not realizing it's a talent, and they don't realize how to, I don't say monetize that, but leverage that as part of their strategy, because this is what I do. But not realizing that is an advantage. So some people might be very organized, some people may do very good, they're great with a selfie image, and it seems like a simple thing, but those things become advantages when you have a love, a passion, and you've seen it. And so when I said intentional, your profile online and has been speaking with you off camera sometimes is it is intentional. You just don't realize it's just you. You're not trying to become something else. You're not trying to shape something that isn't there. You're just saying, I am this person. I have this value to people, and I have this bigger purpose that is an intentional brand, and by itself, and maybe not explicitly from a logo or color scheme, it's more of like, how people are going to feel when they interact with you. And the advice is, anyone out there be authentic? And if your authentic self isn't something that's likable or lovable, you might have to do a little bit more work to figure out why that is.

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I think you touched on something that as a professional coach, we spend a lot of time on, and that's feeling. So how showing up on camera, how showing up on LinkedIn, how showing up as your authentic self makes you feel is a very important part of the process. It's the same when you're trying to figure out what you want to do with your life. And if you're in a corporate setting, in matching your values to the company's values and really understanding what it is that you want, you could get a massive paycheck and an incredible offer. But it's a values conflict. You won't ever be happy. So, like, tapping into your intuition is hugely important. I've made that mistake of chasing the shiny object and the big paycheck, and there was such a values conflict. I did my time and my commitment, and as soon as I could, I raised my hand to exit. It was just a very obvious conflict for me, and not enough people pay attention to it. And then that impacts our mental health and physical health and a downward spiral.

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It actually affects your career too, because your performance goes down and then you get sometimes imposter syndrome creeps in and some other pieces that go with it. I've been to your spot where you've risen to a sea level. And to find those jobs, typically you need to know someone, or someone's got to know you. And applying almost never gets you anywhere. And it's a really weird realization where you become unhirable. No one's going to hire you for a VP or like an amazing level title, but they don't downgrade. It's going to happen to you. If you're in the sea level, you're going to get exited. And if you don't have the network and other things in place, you might become an entrepreneur by force or a consultant. I assume that blew your mind. You've always been promoted, and all of a sudden now I can't even get a job. Are you kidding me? Talk to me about that. A bit, because I think a lot of people get into these positions, and this is the antithesis of becoming the prelude of becoming an entrepreneur.

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To be fair, I didn't really apply.

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Smash my story right there. Okay, fine.

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I'm going to bring it back around. The idea of, you have to use your network. It doesn't matter what level. You are so highly recommended at a very early stage, make sure you are networking. So in my network, people were reaching out and saying, oh, you need to meet this person, you should meet this person. So I had some meetings and some interviews, but it wasn't that I wasn't intentional about it. And maybe that's because I didn't actually want to go back into a corporate setting and that the universe was pushing me to do something different, but it wasn't a super intentional situation. It didn't feel good if I came in second, it didn't feel good that it wasn't a match. But on the other hand, I'm so intentional about where my energy goes and the people that I surround myself with that I know those were not matches for me. And so if some of those were me opting out, not just them saying, you know what, we've chosen another candidate, or the negotiation didn't work, and I know my worth, I've done the work, and I wasn't willing to take a huge pay cut. So there was a multitude of reasons why either I wasn't chosen or I opted out, or it wasn't a match from a financial perspective, to say that if it were the right opportunity with the right energy and the right, this is something I really want to sink my teeth into. I might have said yes for higher equity instead and rework the package, but none of them felt 100% right.

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Yeah. So let's pivot a bit to what you're doing with The Salary Bump. And I'd love to either be an entrepreneur or someone just out there in a job trying to negotiate. Do you want to give them a top three of things to do or top three things, or also things don't do?

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Yeah. So the biggest reason why people don't negotiate is they're afraid. So they're afraid that they might look greedy. They may or may not have a negative association to money or an awkward association to money. Limiting beliefs like money doesn't grow on trees, filthy rich, I have to work harder. Money won't be there. There's a lot of negative emotion around money. So there's fear, and there's fear of the job getting pulled. So they've made me an offer. They're going to pull the job from me if I negotiate. And then the third thing is that most people just don't know they can. So, interesting part about negotiation is having sat in the HR seat. Part of what I do is give you a peek behind that curtain. The door is wide open for you to walk through it. In a negotiation with an offer, they want you. They've selected you, and now they don't want to lose you. So you are actually in the driver's seat, and most people just don't get in it. And that's men and women, by the way. Women maybe are. Statistically, it's proven that only 34% of women negotiate. 50% of men and women negotiate, and that number is even lower for people of color. So the sad truth is that there's this wide open door and you don't walk through it. So I think the biggest part that I think helps people and my clients is doing your homework and really understanding what your role is worth on the market. Most people only have their own salary to go by, and they, okay, I'm making $100,000. I think I'd like 110. They have absolutely no idea what the market is paying. And so when you see roles posted in certain states, it's a law. In certain countries, it's a law that they have to post the range. That's a budgeted range, that's not a market value range. So be thoughtful about that. So if a company posts that the range is 75 to 125, the market could actually be 125 to 175. And so be really careful that you don't fall into a trap. So doing your own homework is really important. And then the other thing I would say most people don't recognize is there is a plethora of items to negotiate on the list, far beyond salary. And the first question that a recruiter or an interviewer will ask you is, what are your salary expectations? And people make the huge mistake. So my number one piece of advice is, never give a number and never give your current salary. You always speak in ranges, so that is really important. But then when you state that range, if you have to, so always you go back to the interviewer or to the recruiter and have them speak it first. So that's my other piece of advice. You never answer first unless they really back you in a corner. But you should always talk about all the other ancillary benefits. So when you say, based on what I saw the range was or the homework or thank you for sharing the range, I'm really curious about all the other ancillary benefits that go along with it. And as we go along the process, we can talk about those. Bonus equity, sign on bonus severance, company car, fuel, other transportation, tuition reimbursement, development, sabbaticals. I mean, the list is so long. Healthcare benefits. In my career, Thomas, not one person, when I made an offer, not one ever asked me about the healthcare benefits. And if you're a listener in the United States, you know how vastly different that can be based on the company. So you might have just got a beautiful salary bump. In your opinion, you're happy with 20 or $30,000, and you just threw it all away because now your salary or your healthcare benefit costs are significantly higher.

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I have an absolute story with that. Where I negotiated, they said, no, we cannot give you any more money salary wise. Then I said, all right, well, let me see. Send the benefits. They send it. And I was like, wait a second. Your benefits are so much higher than market. Like, it was like $2,000 more than we were paying right now a month. And I was like, this significantly changes your structure. I was like, I need you to up the salary that amount gross. Because I'm losing money by moving to this opportunity from a financial standpoint, I go, I can't do that. And they actually then came back and found more money. And so even after I was told no several times, we could not do anymore. They did it because they knew their benefits are so bad. But this happens. We get a bunch of old white guys that have a bunch of all procedures and stuff. It runs it up on a smaller company.

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Well, thank goodness you asked the question. And I guess my point is, I've made thousands of offers to people, and such a low percentage even ask for the salary, let alone all the other important stuff. And even if you got the salary that you wanted, still negotiate all the other stuff. And the other last piece of advice, I would say, is just create it as a win win situation. So I always like to give people the ammunition to say, when you're going into a negotiation and you're coming back. Thank you so much for the offer. I'm thrilled to potentially be part of the organization. I'm really excited. I'd like to talk a little bit more about the offer. And at the end of the day, we both want each other. So let's make this a win win. It doesn't have to be an ugly, uncomfortable situation. Go in making it a win win so that everybody's happy, and I will also say with the list of other ancillary benefits, there's much more room to play on those than there is salary because the salary comes out in one p l bucket. All these other ancillary benefits, not going to say they're hidden, but they're not glaring like that p l item. So you do have a lot more opportunity. And sign on bonus is another huge one. If they can't meet your gap and you really want this job and it feels so good in every other aspect, and you negotiated the heck out of every other benefit and you want to close the gap, talk about sign on bonus one time. They can absolutely do it. And if you're leaving a company around the end of the year before your bonus payout is, don't forget to include that in. Listen, if I start February 1, I'm leaving a bonus on the table always. Let's talk about that. So these are just little things that I cannot tell you how many people don't know you and I know them. It's just not widely known.

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Your clients, you say, hey, listen, you're going to get 30% to 50% more by working with me, and you've proven that. So if anyone out there maybe this moment who should get a hold of you and how do they do that?

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So two ways. The and there's two ways that you can work with me. One, I have an online program that is a self guided program that you're going to want to do the work. It's short, snappy videos, really meaty. Some worksheets to help guide you along the way, helps you to know your worth, helps you prep for the interview, get your elevator pitch right, and then land the plane, which is all the secret sauce of all the negotiation tips. Some of my friends call me their salary secret weapon. There is all sorts of great stuff in that online program. And then the next way is LinkedIn is where I am probably the most active, but one on one. So people who want to close the deal a little bit quicker, it's a very specific client. It's somebody who wants a bump in their current role. It's somebody who has just received a job offer and has 72 hours to turn around the negotiation. Or it's someone who is just excited about what their future looks like. And I cannot tell you how many people come to me and approach me with just, yeah, I got this offer. I told them $10,000. It's like, no, first thing you do is say, I need 72 hours to come back to you, then you call me, then we close the deal.

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I love it. I think my last w to employment when I got hired, I try to negotiate almost everything you described, and they said no to everything. And when that happens, just so you know, employers that are listening or anybody else, all you're doing is setting that person up to leave to go find something else, and you absolutely will not negotiate. If that person is going in thinking I can do better, they're going to probably go out there and look for better. Just be aware of that. But also if you have other options, I would almost pick the company that's more willing to work with an employee that maybe all things being equal, because that personality came out in the company later for sure. So just be aware of that. I think it's a If you're in there, if you're going for a promotion or you're about to get an offer, you're going down the path of looking. I would start even before you have the offer with you, and I think you kind of left that out. But I think because the research, the things that you should do, preparing so you don't get to the point where you're getting in your offer and you're like, oh, wow, even the advice we didn't cover, like when you're filling things out online, what's your expected salary? What do you put in those numbers in the digital field to move forward? A dollar. I really hate getting, getting it pinned in a corner when they do that, but I always put a dollar, or if it's free text, I put market value. What's your advice on something like that? Because there are places where you get pinned in and I don't know what to do. I don't know if my technique is right. But what do you recommend?

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I love market value and most of the jobs had it posted online, what the range is. So to try to put a range, and if there is no opportunity to do that, I would put a dollar as well, or zero. But I will say almost none of my jobs have ever come from posting for a job. They've all come through my network. And it's something I highly, highly recommend that people focus on building their network at a very early stage and maintaining and fostering that network. And in working with me, my clients cross over. So if somebody takes advantage of the online program, they also can eventually become a one on one client and vice versa. If you're a one on one client, you actually get access to the online program. What I don't do with my one on one clients, though, is start from scratch and building your resume and your profile. If you're ready to walk into your dream job interview and you've got everything ready to roll, I'll help you fine tune your elevator pitch and answer those critical questions. But the online program is for more of the beginning stage, and then you can come to me later when you're getting closer to an offer.

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Awesome. Yeah. At the very least, just reach on LinkedIn, find you there because a little 510 minutes consultation might be enough to set you, hey, we should work together. Where to go? I like to get to this part where it's a little faster kind of conversations of what you recommend, what you've gotten there, and it helps entrepreneurs kind of learn something. So let's start with this. What business book do you think from an entrepreneur standpoint is a must read?

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I haven't read a lot of entrepreneurial business book. I will tell you, I'm a leadership junkie. I'm obsessed with leadership. I'm still doing fractional chief people officer work, so I do a lot of CEO advisory and unlocking the talent culture and blowing things up from a talent perspective is what I love. So I'm more of a leadership girl. I love Patrick Lancione. Anything. Five dysfunctions of a team, the ideal team player, all of his stuff. I'm obsessed.

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Do you have a favorite podcast you'd like to hop in on as well?

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So from an entrepreneur podcast perspective, Jenna Kutcher's the Gold Digger is one of my favorites. I love Dyer of a CEO. I just posted on my favorite podcast today on LinkedIn. I also coming back to LinkedIn for a minute, Thomas. I do a ton of freebies on LinkedIn. A lot of free advice, a lot of really good stuff there. So following me would be really helpful, I think, for people.

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You may have to do an edit on your post today and put never been promoted on that.

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I did put a never been promoted.

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I may or may not manage my own LinkedIn account. So I haven't looked today.

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It is on there 100%.

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You see, I snuck that in right there.

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If you don't do shameless front of mind for me, Thomas, I appreciate.

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That's very kind of you, by the way. And yes, I had seen that. That's why I threw that out there. So thank you. I have one more question, right for you. I'm at two because from your perspective, and I usually ask this outwardly, but inwardly for you, what is your best entrepreneurial trait?

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Grit? I don't stop. I bring the highest energy, and I really focus on the things that are going to move me forward. I rarely get stuck, and only because I'm the kind of person that is so insanely curious that I'm always looking for the root cause and looking under the hood and trying to figure out how to piece things together. I'm really intrigued by that. So curiosity and grit would be two. I gave you a bonus.

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I love it. And finally, I'm not even going to ask the question because I already know the answer. Because you can't join the club because you've been promoted. So we're not even going to ask that question. We already know you've been promoted into the w two job. I'm sorry, you're not allowed to join. You can join the movement, the cut the tie movement, where we're going to do that. You're allowed to come into that, but you can't come into the club. It's a very exclusive club of us who have not figured out how to be promoted.

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Thomas, the whole point of me being here is to help people get promoted so I can be an advisor to your club and help all of your audience.

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I like it. Well, they're entrepreneurs now. So the rearview mirror is gone. The W two s is sailing further and further away as they accelerate past. You're back here waving, going, you can still go. You can still come here.

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Entrepreneurs still struggle with asking for what they're worth.

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Absolutely. And that's a whole other field, I think, with your negotiations, too. So maybe if you gotten this point of the show, I would tell you, even if you're an entrepreneur and you're trying to figure out what your pricing is, of what your value is, and when you're working with customers, how to tote the line for your value proposition, I think you're still somebody. You can certainly advise entrepreneurs on how to negotiate with their customers to add value, to keep cost, keep revenue, and figure it out. So I think there's an area there to be explored as well, and additional services that you provide that are completely ancillary to the, in parallel to the w two world.

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I do so. Absolutely. Yeah. My online program is specific to a w two, but my one on one is for both.

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Wonderful. Thank you, Keri Lynne, for showing up today and giving me some advice on how bad I was at negotiating the w two world and everyone else in the world who should now call you and say, I want more money. Do you have a special offer that you do with your program? By the way. Do you do anything? Or if you don't negotiate enough, or if you don't have anything, we can just edit this part out, I guess. But if you do, I do.

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I'm so confident in the work that I do with my clients that no bump, no fee. So for my one on one clients, if you don't get a bump, I give you your money back. For my online program, it's a 30 day money back guarantee.

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Think about that. So you're spending me $5,000 to work with you. I look at it from a math thing, even if I broke even for that amount on my year one. So let's say it's something like, hey, I thought I was going to get 100. I got 110,000 instead. Covers your fee. But you just now made an extra million or two, potentially over your career, because the previous salary does dictate your next salary to some degree. So keep that in mind that if you're working with someone who knows how to negotiate, do you have something coming up where if you work with you and you come back on other ones, you have some kind of, like, ongoing relationship and resources that are available for people who are working, interacting with you?

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It's part of the one on one program. Absolutely, yeah. That we stay in touch. We have one session throughout the years to get you set up for your next bump. Right. Or obviously, if you're job jumping, my one on one is it's only a couple of sessions and you're ready to go. But I do offer three sessions. So if you don't use all the sessions, we can save those for a time when you would need them. And working with me actually is only $4,555, so it's not significant. And when you talk about the money we're leaving on the table, every one of us is. And that statistic is actually true. It's between a million and a million and a half that you're leaving on the table by not negotiating.

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Really significant. And your fees are completely reasonable. And this is of January 2024. So if you're listening this to in the future, welcome to the future. We're thinking of you now. In 2030, her fees are higher, we assure you. But that's still your salary. So just live with it and get in there and crush it. Thank you, by the way, for coming today. I appreciate it. Anyone who's made it this point, your dad points, you've been awarded 100 keep them contract. You can spend them wherever you'd like to. And you can tell my kids where to spend theirs because they have billions. If this was your first time and you made it this far, you rock. I now like you as much as the person who's been here the second time. If you've been here more than once, I still love you very much. So thank you. Until next time, and we meet again on the Never Been Promoted podcast. Go out there and unleash your entrepreneur. Thank you.

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Thanks for listening to Never Been Promoted with Thomas Helfrich. Make sure to check the show notes for our guest contact information and any relevant links. Connect with Thomas personally at

Introduction and Guest Keri-Lynne Shaw
Background of Keri-Lynne Shaw
Transition to Entrepreneurship
Challenges and Strategy as a Founder
Identifying Ideal Customer Profile
Entrepreneurial Insights and Career Transition
Negotiation Insights and Advice
Entrepreneurial Mindset and Brand Building
Negotiation Techniques and Career Strategy
The Salary Bump and Services Offered
Entrepreneurial Lessons and Pricing Strategy
Additional Entrepreneurial Advice and Services